Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 6:38:02 GMT
|
|
|
Post by ben on Jul 11, 2017 7:50:41 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 18:38:17 GMT
Money will be a thing of the past, for us, as this form of current/currency will become obsolete. Yes
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 18:39:07 GMT
|
|
|
Post by ben on Jul 16, 2017 14:36:09 GMT
Money will be a thing of the past, for us, as this form of current/currency will become obsolete. Yes I like your optimism, but i don't think we will be so careless anymore. It is clear to me personally that money is the offer that was made to humanity, to each one individually in a personal moment with god. Otherwise the bigger chunk of us would only work long enough for money, until we can buy land to selfsustain. In Germany that is around 20k€ to get a piece of land, another 5k for a small hut. 🙇
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 14:47:05 GMT
1. - Money mentality #a "need money to survive" #b "having more money means high chance of survivability" #c "money ensures fair exchange of goods, services, and labours." 2. - Money-free mentality: @a look at a pack of wolves working together to survive, do you see them exchanging money for food in order to survive? Or beavers engineering lodge dam in a river to survive, do you see them exchanging money for woods? No. Simple. @b imagine fire ablazing on a building with full of billions of dollars (and insurance money information in computers) and along with you inside; you have two option choices: #1 collect money as much you can then try to escape but you risk higher chances of fire getting to you. #2 you just simply escape to safe place outside of the building at first place, without money. Which one ensures high chance of surviviability? Obviously the latter one. Simple. @c look at rest of animals, fishes, birds, insects, and virtually ALL sentient livings asiding from human beings... on this Earth planet surviving and some are thriving thoughout history till present now. Do you see them using any form of money currency as fair in order to survive at first place? Obviously not..... so, this: Free exchange of goods, services, and labours to ensure #1 survivability (and living life to fullness in awesome way) of each other is fairness itself. Simple.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 18:10:51 GMT
1. - Money mentality #a "need money to survive" #b "having more money means high chance of survivability" #c "money ensures fair exchange of goods, services, and labours." 2. - Money-free mentality: @a look at a pack of wolves working together to survive, do you see them exchanging money for food in order to survive? Or beavers engineering lodge dam in a river to survive, do you see them exchanging money for woods? No. Simple. @b imagine fire ablazing on a building with full of billions of dollars (and insurance money information in computers) and along with you inside; you have two option choices: #1 collect money as much you can then try to escape but you risk higher chances of fire getting to you. #2 you just simply escape to safe place outside of the building at first place, without money. Which one ensures high chance of surviviability? Obviously the latter one. Simple. @c look at rest of animals, fishes, birds, insects, and virtually ALL sentient livings asiding from human beings... on this Earth planet surviving and some are thriving thoughout history till present now. Do you see them using any form of money currency as fair in order to survive at first place? Obviously not..... so, this: Free exchange of goods, services, and labours to ensure #1 survivability (and living life to fullness in awesome way) of each other is fairness itself. Simple. without money, it then gets complicated ,on a personal level and as a whole, there is not enough Gold to go around . money is put in place to govern and control civilizations ,its a pecking order status ,just like all other animals, Wolf's especially.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 19:50:35 GMT
1. - Money mentality #a "need money to survive" #b "having more money means high chance of survivability" #c "money ensures fair exchange of goods, services, and labours." 2. - Money-free mentality: @a look at a pack of wolves working together to survive, do you see them exchanging money for food in order to survive? Or beavers engineering lodge dam in a river to survive, do you see them exchanging money for woods? No. Simple. @b imagine fire ablazing on a building with full of billions of dollars (and insurance money information in computers) and along with you inside; you have two option choices: #1 collect money as much you can then try to escape but you risk higher chances of fire getting to you. #2 you just simply escape to safe place outside of the building at first place, without money. Which one ensures high chance of surviviability? Obviously the latter one. Simple. @c look at rest of animals, fishes, birds, insects, and virtually ALL sentient livings asiding from human beings... on this Earth planet surviving and some are thriving thoughout history till present now. Do you see them using any form of money currency as fair in order to survive at first place? Obviously not..... so, this: Free exchange of goods, services, and labours to ensure #1 survivability (and living life to fullness in awesome way) of each other is fairness itself. Simple. without money, it then gets complicated ,on a personal level and as a whole, there is not enough Gold to go around . money is put in place to govern and control civilizations ,its a pecking order status ,just like all other animals, Wolf's especially. Reminds me so much of Galactic Civilizations 3 pc game.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 16:17:27 GMT
1. - "Things will get complicated without money. Because..." 2. - "Money is just like order status (as being a system), in order to govern, balance, and control civilizations. Because..." 3. - "Money ensures fair exchange of goods, services, and labours. It is simple and period. Because..." 4. - "It is simple, really. You see, comparing money system as being part of order status (as being a system) to like animals, especially wolves. Get it? Simple."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 16:19:53 GMT
1. - "Things will get complicated without money. Because..." 2. - "Money is just like order status (as being a system), in order to govern, balance, and control civilizations. Because..." 3. - "Money ensures fair exchange of goods, services, and labours. It is simple and period. Because..." 4. - "It is simple, really. You see, comparing money system as being part of order status (as being a system) to like animals, especially wolves. Get it? Simple." - @1-4: Poor justifications as these doesn't answer the 'core' why what money or any form of currency system is really exactly good for. Comparing money or a form of currency system to order status of animals is plain silly. Cause' animals have leaders, not money. Get it? Simple. If not, this means we can still have some degrees of order status as having different systems to be part of... just without barriers... known as money or any form of currency system. Exchanging goods, services, and labours to ensure surviviability and living life in improved or awesome way for each other is fairness itself. Complicated how? You see, that is money mentality talking. Wanna know how it work without money or any form of currency system? It is simply this: Just love doing anywhatever stuff or be being part of systemic organization of sort like Star Trek, contributing goods/services/labours - all for free because overally in the end all of these contribute to overall surviviability (and bonus improved lifestyle, entertaining, etc in awesome way) for each other, everybody. Now.. moment of truth: The money/any form of currency system(s) is only good for... breeding brutal, greedy, and survival of fittest mentality population in negative way.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 21:26:43 GMT
1. - "Things will get complicated without money. Because..." 2. - "Money is just like order status (as being a system), in order to govern, balance, and control civilizations. Because..." 3. - "Money ensures fair exchange of goods, services, and labours. It is simple and period. Because..." 4. - "It is simple, really. You see, comparing money system as being part of order status (as being a system) to like animals, especially wolves. Get it? Simple." - @1-4: Poor justifications as these doesn't answer the 'core' why what money or any form of currency system is really exactly good for. Comparing money or a form of currency system to order status of animals is plain silly. Cause' animals have leaders, not money. Get it? Simple. If not, this means we can still have some degrees of order status as having different systems to be part of... just without barriers... known as money or any form of currency system. Exchanging goods, services, and labours to ensure surviviability and living life in improved or awesome way for each other is fairness itself. Complicated how? You see, that is money mentality talking. Wanna know how it work without money or any form of currency system? It is simply this: Just love doing anywhatever stuff or be being part of systemic organization of sort like Star Trek, contributing goods/services/labours - all for free because overally in the end all of these contribute to overall surviviability (and bonus improved lifestyle, entertaining, etc in awesome way) for each other, everybody. Now.. moment of truth: The money/any form of currency system(s) is only good for... breeding brutal, greedy, and survival of fittest mentality population in negative way. your right but to make such a change over, would take a long time ,then the confusion would make it impractical. This idea would have to take place at the very beginning of civilization . its to complicated now .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 22:29:28 GMT
Money will be a thing of the past, for us, as this form of current/currency will become obsolete. Yes I like your optimism, but i don't think we will be so careless anymore. It is clear to me personally that money is the offer that was made to humanity, to each one individually in a personal moment with god. Otherwise the bigger chunk of us would only work long enough for money, until we can buy land to selfsustain. In Germany that is around 20k€ to get a piece of land, another 5k for a small hut. 🙇 ... and then you have to pay taxes regularly, IIRC, and costs for using infrastructure like pipes, drains, etc... The heck, a German couple that reduced their waste to zer0, is still obliged to pay a fee for the trash bin that is mandatory without exeptions. They nailed it to the wall of their house. actually I don't think money is THE culprit, it is interest (not thinking about psycho-spiritual dynamics), and banks being able to make money out of nothing - you get a credit who you have to pay back, and YOU do generate the money by work, while the bank typed in some numbers and made a contract with you. uh, this topic has been discussed a lot, I did that in my head, and did read a lot about it, so bear with me and my current tiredness when I don't get into it in depth. I think it is possible to develop - or establish again - a money system that works without interest, so there's no value in hoarding it, but increased interest to let it circulate. Reginalwährung is a name for it (sorry, too tired to look that up in English)/ such a model.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 22:42:22 GMT
I like your optimism, but i don't think we will be so careless anymore. It is clear to me personally that money is the offer that was made to humanity, to each one individually in a personal moment with god. Otherwise the bigger chunk of us would only work long enough for money, until we can buy land to selfsustain. In Germany that is around 20k€ to get a piece of land, another 5k for a small hut. 🙇 ... and then you have to pay taxes regularly, IIRC, and costs for using infrastructure like pipes, drains, etc... The heck, a German couple that reduced their waste to zer0, is still obliged to pay a fee for the trash bin that is mandatory without exeptions. They nailed it to the wall of their house. actually I don't think money is THE culprit, it is interest (not thinking about psycho-spiritual dynamics), and banks being able to make money out of nothing - you get a credit who you have to pay back, and YOU do generate the money by work, while the bank typed in some numbers and made a contract with you. uh, this topic has been discussed a lot, I did that in my head, and did read a lot about it, so bear with me and my current tiredness when I don't get into it in depth. I think it is possible to develop - or establish again - a money system that works without interest, so there's no value in hoarding it, but increased interest to let it circulate. Reginalwährung is a name for it (sorry, too tired to look that up in English)/ such a model. ... And when there is a relationship with money in terms that it is flowing around constantly, then the next step could be to recognise that abundance does not depend on numerical exchange of coloured paper, see xlegic's thoughts and comparisons. There is so much to consider and work on, as it ripples through so many aspects, that money itself is but one facet of a whole paradigm shift in how we treat earth and communicate with it... Eh, let me find a link to a book PDF I am currently reading - when we (on an individual basis first) tune into receiving messages of this precious planet, dystopian thought form clouds will collapse, and a whole new world will emerge by caring for this wonderful garden called earth, instead of continuing to plunder it without treating it as the living conscious being it is.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 23:19:34 GMT
Here is the link to the PDF ~Â rumahtraining.com/page/i-am-with-you-the-earth-wants-to-talk-with-us-/About the book ~ In 1996, during a ceremony as part of his spiritual-shamanic training in Arizona, Sten Linnander unexpectedly experienced the Earth speaking to him in a clear, unequivocal voice, asking him to go up on a mountain and 'speak normally' to it. Thus began a three-month series of communications between the author and the Earth. It then took Sten fifteen years to overcome his doubts and skepticism, both about the statements made by the Earth and how they would be received by the public. But now, having re-established the same clear connection he had then, Sten fulfils his promise to the Earth with the publication of this book. We hear an Earth that speaks of itself as sentient, conscious and alive, in intimate contact with humans, wishing nothing more than to be seen, felt and communicated with. I Am With You describes the Earth and human beings as having a joint goal: 'Allowing and combining freedom and intimacy.' The Earth also says it is a sexual being that comes up to meet and blend with our energies every time we get aroused, creative or exuberant. I Am With You suggests that human beings are partners with the Earth, slowly waking up to the larger parts of ourselves that are constantly interacting and communicating with the Earth. It invites us to cooperate with the Earth as a living, conscious being, and presents a vision of true cooperation that will leave no area untouched. It proposes we build a technical device so that the Earth can communicate with us in our own language, making it possible to show us everything that has transpired on Earth. This would bring humanity closer together and allow us to begin to sense, from within, who we are and who the Earth is. About the author: Sten Linnander grew up in Sweden, Afghanistan and Nepal, and later earned a degree in physics and geophysics from the University of Stockholm. Dividing his time between Arizona and Germany, he is currently engaged in research into the fluid self-organization in nature. His quest in life is to understand how we can reconnect with the living world around us and take our rightful place as conscious participants in its evolution. *** In this book, earth also talks about that we came from somewhere, and that time travel and time folding will be done, if... read for yourself; it's got 188 pages and is very refreshing as it comes from someone with a solid scientific background, so there's no new age baloney wishy washy "channeled" crap. Instead you may be surprised even of how you do already talk/communicate with the earth, and find confirmations for thoughts, feelings, and sensations you didn't tell or got called nuts for if you did. Doom off, to put it short, and of course, it's in our hands. Our thoughts and actions decide it, as usual, and I know, it is possible for us all of humanity to leave self destructive patterns repeated over and over again for good, and create a heavenly experience on and most important with earth. Oh yeah, there's also talk about weather and space weather, and how we do influence it, and that's not meant in terms of geoengineering.
|
|
|
Post by Zen nli on Jul 17, 2017 23:50:59 GMT
*Regionalwährung ffs
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 18:24:56 GMT
... and then you have to pay taxes regularly, IIRC, and costs for using infrastructure like pipes, drains, etc... The heck, a German couple that reduced their waste to zer0, is still obliged to pay a fee for the trash bin that is mandatory without exeptions. They nailed it to the wall of their house. actually I don't think money is THE culprit, it is interest (not thinking about psycho-spiritual dynamics), and banks being able to make money out of nothing - you get a credit who you have to pay back, and YOU do generate the money by work, while the bank typed in some numbers and made a contract with you. uh, this topic has been discussed a lot, I did that in my head, and did read a lot about it, so bear with me and my current tiredness when I don't get into it in depth. I think it is possible to develop - or establish again - a money system that works without interest, so there's no value in hoarding it, but increased interest to let it circulate. Reginalwährung is a name for it (sorry, too tired to look that up in English)/ such a model. ... And when there is a relationship with money in terms that it is flowing around constantly, then the next step could be to recognise that abundance does not depend on numerical exchange of coloured paper, see xlegic's thoughts and comparisons. There is so much to consider and work on, as it ripples through so many aspects, that money itself is but one facet of a whole paradigm shift in how we treat earth and communicate with it... Eh, let me find a link to a book PDF I am currently reading - when we (on an individual basis first) tune into receiving messages of this precious planet, dystopian thought form clouds will collapse, and a whole new world will emerge by caring for this wonderful garden called earth, instead of continuing to plunder it without treating it as the living conscious being it is. - Maybe some kind of something like a Transitional Research-and-Education Process... in-between from having money/currency system to none, to lessen the complexity of "advanced concepts" of life without money/currency system..? Seems right emotional and logical thing to do.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 12:02:33 GMT
"Ensuring (barrier) Well-Being, (barrier) Well-Socialized, and (barrier) Natural Survivability of from Individual to (barrier) Collective Societies, (barrier) Other Species, (barrier) Eco-Systems on Earth, (barrier) Earth itself, and (barrier) Beyond." = barriers
Now let's try the same sentence without barriers: "Ensuring Well-Being, Well-Socialized, and Natural Survivability of from Individual to Collective Societies, Other Species, Eco-Systems on Earth, Earth itself, and Beyond." - reading this is like playing a good music.
|
|
|
Post by Montblanc on Aug 1, 2017 4:37:40 GMT
... And when there is a relationship with money in terms that it is flowing around constantly, then the next step could be to recognise that abundance does not depend on numerical exchange of coloured paper, see xlegic's thoughts and comparisons. There is so much to consider and work on, as it ripples through so many aspects, that money itself is but one facet of a whole paradigm shift in how we treat earth and communicate with it... Eh, let me find a link to a book PDF I am currently reading - when we (on an individual basis first) tune into receiving messages of this precious planet, dystopian thought form clouds will collapse, and a whole new world will emerge by caring for this wonderful garden called earth, instead of continuing to plunder it without treating it as the living conscious being it is. - Maybe some kind of something like a Transitional Research-and-Education Process... in-between from having money/currency system to none, to lessen the complexity of "advanced concepts" of life without money/currency system..? Seems right emotional and logical thing to do. I don't mean to be a jerk but reverting this system entirely after it supported all our basis for civilization isn't possible, and will not be possible for a long time. Without currency a lot of lives would suddenly lose all economic value, and while I hate entering such a mind frame, I regrettingly admit that the aftermath of such a collapse wouldn't be something I wish to see in my time. As always the weak would be the first and greater victims, by weak I mean defenseless people like childre, the sick and the elderly. This system was probably put in place by our ancestral civilization builders to ensure the protection of property, and while money and barter have existed, actually co-existed since the inception of money as currency, and still do as of today (nothing is barring you from offering some service in direct exchange for goods you want or need instead of money, though some heaviy conditioned people may sneer if they hear of someone working in exchange for something other than money), a system where all currency is solely based on barter is no longer possible unless some catastrophic collapse renders all our current forms of "legal tender" useless. So, my thougths on the future of human currency are that we'll inevitably move on to use digital currency in exclusive, it certainly could work and with some fine tuning you could completely cut-off the need for parasitic intermediaries like banks have become, stealing currency units would also become a thing much harder to do, and most criminals with the capability for commiting economic crimes and theft under such a system wouldn't bother going after the regular people with low resources, unlike what happens nowadays where even the poor aren't safe from thievery, sometimes of the violent kind, and fraud. And forget free exchange altogether, unless we actually acjieve a type-I civilizational status or higher, free exchange will continue to be an utopic mirage.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 9:24:00 GMT
- Maybe some kind of something like a Transitional Research-and-Education Process... in-between from having money/currency system to none, to lessen the complexity of "advanced concepts" of life without money/currency system..? Seems right emotional and logical thing to do. I don't mean to be a jerk but reverting this system entirely after it supported all our basis for civilization isn't possible, and will not be possible for a long time. Without currency a lot of lives would suddenly lose all economic value, and while I hate entering such a mind frame, I regrettingly admit that the aftermath of such a collapse wouldn't be something I wish to see in my time. As always the weak would be the first and greater victims, by weak I mean defenseless people like childre, the sick and the elderly. This system was probably put in place by our ancestral civilization builders to ensure the protection of property, and while money and barter have existed, actually co-existed since the inception of money as currency, and still do as of today (nothing is barring you from offering some service in direct exchange for goods you want or need instead of money, though some heaviy conditioned people may sneer if they hear of someone working in exchange for something other than money), a system where all currency is solely based on barter is no longer possible unless some catastrophic collapse renders all our current forms of "legal tender" useless. So, my thougths on the future of human currency are that we'll inevitably move on to use digital currency in exclusive, it certainly could work and with some fine tuning you could completely cut-off the need for parasitic intermediaries like banks have become, stealing currency units would also become a thing much harder to do, and most criminals with the capability for commiting economic crimes and theft under such a system wouldn't bother going after the regular people with low resources, unlike what happens nowadays where even the poor aren't safe from thievery, sometimes of the violent kind, and fraud. And forget free exchange altogether, unless we actually acjieve a type-I civilizational status or higher, free exchange will continue to be an utopic mirage. "reverting this system entirely after it supported all our basis for civilization isn't possible..."Reverting? No.. more like transcending. "without currency a lot of lives would suddenly lose all economic value..."After transcending past the money/currency system, all lives would... suddenly matter more. The concepts of "monetary value" would cease to applying to lives, because lives are priceless. "As always the weak would be the first and greater victims, by weak I mean defenseless people like childre, the sick and the elderly."Young Children, Elders, and sick people would... become strong and can become leaders. After transcending past the money/currency system, the psychology concepts would be changed and removal of money/currency barriers, thus more accessibility to mental & health care, etc then circulate them back to whatever positive stuff they were doing. ... ... ... "And forget free exchange altogether, unless we actually acjieve a type-I civilizational status or higher, free exchange will continue to be an utopic mirage."Almost true statement, but...yet the existence of this thread and it stands as starting point of sort.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 2:16:42 GMT
1. - Imagine this: a. The teachers give a basic version or a variation of monopoly game to kids, and teach them how to play it. b. As they play it, some lose.. some win. c. Teachers tell them it is time to stop playing the game and put it away - because it is time for other important subjects. d. But they are enjoying it so much that they got disappointed upon hearing what teachers told them. Drat! Of course they were enjoying it because no matter whether they win or lose, there are no real life consequences from that. It is just a game. Right? Go on. e. Then the important subjects such as math geometry, art, etc .. voila they stopped being disappointed and enjoyed learning and creating cool stuff. ...... ...... 2. - Now... imagine b as being continued onward from birth to full real life with too much negative consequences. 3. - So, you know what this mean. If not, reread c.
|
|