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Post by ^v^ on Jun 12, 2018 4:05:19 GMT
Greece tended towards the notion that none were higher than the fates. But I doubt atropos and her friends simply snipped on a whim. Fate is part of a feedback loop informed by a relationship between self and other rather than a hierarchy. Entropy functions towards balance, and balance is a story of tension and release or it is never a story at all. Did Greece indeed? Huh. Learn something new every day. Uhm, I mean: Yeah I knew that already. Good job, you. Right in line with what I already knew! Not sure about all the other stuff, but it sounds nifty and swell regardless. I'll have to take time to contemplate what the words mean, and perhaps I'll get back to you. May take a while though! Be well. And enjoy reaping the benefits of the increased site traffic. Good stuff! Very shred, you. |
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jun 12, 2018 4:07:15 GMT
Trust is never besides the point. You can appreciate a lion for its majesty, but you’ll only live so long as you respect it for its ferocity too. I have little, but I do have a nose and some scents are not wise to trust.
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Post by ^v^ on Jun 12, 2018 4:07:57 GMT
Greece tended towards the notion that none were higher than the fates. But I doubt atropos and her friends simply snipped on a whim. Fate is part of a feedback loop informed by a relationship between self and other rather than a hierarchy. Entropy functions towards balance, and balance is a story of tension and release or it is never a story at all. Did Greece indeed? Huh. Learn something new every day. Uhm, I mean: Yeah I knew that already. Good job, you. Right in line with what I already knew! Not sure about all the other stuff, but it sounds nifty and swell regardless. I'll have to take time to contemplate what the words mean, and perhaps I'll get back to you. May take a while though! Be well. And enjoy reaping the benefits of the increased site traffic. Good stuff! Very shred, you. , that is. Typos! They can be so Freudian at times, can't they? |
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jun 12, 2018 4:12:16 GMT
Did Greece indeed? Huh. Learn something new every day. Uhm, I mean: Yeah I knew that already. Good job, you. Right in line with what I already knew! Not sure about all the other stuff, but it sounds nifty and swell regardless. I'll have to take time to contemplate what the words mean, and perhaps I'll get back to you. May take a while though! Be well. And enjoy reaping the benefits of the increased site traffic. Good stuff! Very shred, you. , that is. Typos! They can be so Freudian at times, can't they? Only when you didn’t learn to read between the lines from the get-go, friendo. |
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Post by ben on Jun 12, 2018 7:31:35 GMT
get a room you two  |
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jun 12, 2018 11:09:37 GMT
get a room you two  |
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Post by feltzens on Jun 13, 2018 2:22:06 GMT
This is an interesting discussion, i’m grateful for what’s been shared so far. Here are some thoughts that arose of me, not specifically on archetype, just general on societies for whatever it’s worth. This question around secret societies has been on my mind for a while. At this point, my own belief is that the world is crawling with these sorts of groups, always have and perhaps always will, even if humanity develops to a ‘full-disclosure’ level of culture where this stuff (psych phenom) is routine. Why would there still be societies or similar groups around even then? I was listening to a podcast conversation about a secret society. The gentleman being interviewed (grandmaster or whatev) struck me as an excellent fellow, full of knowledge, wisdom, respect, discernment, warmth etc. The guy struck me as having a very balanced and healthy ego. His order follows the ‘left-hand path’ of spiritual development, which i would characterize primarily (my opinion) by an acceptance of the ego, its freedom to explore and encouragement in its pursuit of experience and evolution. After listening to the conversation and spending some time thinking about what I had heard and how much of it resonated with truth, my view now is that, not only are there secret societies all over the place, they are an active and necessary for the healthy evolution of humanities spiritual life. I say this riding the assumption that none of these societies would focus on doing outright evil of course, and if those exist, fuck them. I believe we need both healthy left-hand and healthy right-hand paths and perhaps the ideal initiate would be a combination of both: Developing a strong, healthy, capable ego along with keenness of mind for maximum badassery and also cultivating a strong heart awareness and the capacity/strength of will to set the ego aside and simply allow the Higher will to do what must be and sufficient affinity for silence to know when that’s the case. Perhaps this is why psychology (depth) is such a critical aspect to all of this.. It is necessary to healthy ego development. If we don’t engage with knowledge about the dynamics of our ego/mind and the many ways it has been conditioned, patterned or looped into all sorts of distortions demanding most of our energy. It’s a lot of fun to speculate on all of this. I have had experiences that confirmed the existence of psychic phenomena and so are interested in exploring ideas around the possibility of these abilities becoming widespread/accepted and the social/ethical implications around this, specially around notions like privacy. I’m reading a book (on and off) that speaks to all this called Prometheus and Atlas, highly recommended. My take then: societies exist and they are active in the world and also have basically shaped the cultural history of humanity with their activities. For if this is all about human potential, it makes sense that the most avant-garde ideas the Universe is prepared to share with humanity would come through individuals (humans=social creatures=groups=more fun)who have expanded their consciousness (typically through a group or in close contact with one, tho in some cases not) to a sufficient degree capable on picking up those frequencies. The difference in our time is how the knowledge is readily available to anyone ready to pursue these possibilities. Everything i’ve shared is my opinion and i am not interested in being right or wrong about anything btw. Apologies for being all over the place instead of fleshing out any particular point, i just felt like sharing some general thoughts. My opinion is derived mostly from readings and forum lurkings so if you feel there’s nothing of substance in what i have to share, you are probably right  cheers! |
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jun 13, 2018 3:33:36 GMT
Let's say for the sake of argument there indeed are lots of different secret societies. there's a great deal of historical evidence to suggest that when people have power or they have secrets, they tend to act in their own interests and concentrate power among existing channels. I don't know where your confidence comes from that any secret society has the best interests of the general population at heart. I think by nature most organizations like this tend to think they are above the general public.
Personally, I don't believe the ego needs a healthy boost. The ego is designed to flex itself without any help...
Spiritual natures don't tend to develop on their own though. It's more of an applied...a discipline. That is why as you mentioned there are a lot of traditions that deemphasize the psychic powers as such because they are not supposed to be the ends. The end is suppose to be the discipline.
The truth is out there for those intent on finding it. We live in a revolutionary era of mankind. We have the most extensive education in the history of our species available at any instant at any time through the medium of the internet. Of course this just means the really good stuff is hidden under the endless distractions of multimedia and the impulse machine as you phrase it. But still, for those who are worthy...bringing it back round to your initial comment. Perhaps being able to uncover the information is proof in itself that you are worthy of knowing it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 9:10:25 GMT
Secret societies exist for sure. The best proof is not actually tangible evidence but more looking at what you are capable of. Can you not see yourself being in one? Maybe you guys just sit around and share delicious cupcake recipes but keep it secret from the public, but its a club, and you are in it. If you can picture this, then 100% others have gone the next step and joined/created one. Maybe they do not delve in cupcake but something else, my point being they exist.
I came across a strange person a while back. It was someone who approached me and basically gave me the heads up I was about to be, how do I put this, stress tested (fucked up basically lol). The person indicated something was looking my way (from what I understood this something was an entity) and tried to give me some basic training to how to handle it. Weather you believe this or not is up to you. Obviously I cant express what transpired in a way that would make a lot of sense so I will just keep it simple and short.
The person was not from a secret society however was what I would call a porter for one. This particular group (they referred to themselves as a faction and do not name names or anything juicy) was from the 'dark'. They did not seem evil or anything sinister to me but they did refer to themselves as 'the darkness'. I couldn't get much information from the 'porter' relating to the faction but I did get some about what they do. There are obviously multiple factions within said darkness group. They have contact with two types of intelligent life forms that I was made aware of. One could be called an 'Alien' from description (actual creatures like humans) and the other would be called a 'Dimensional' (existing within consciousness). They have history relating back to ancient Egypt (possibly further but I only asked as far as the pyramids) and are involved in things like medicine, education, basically every aspect of the government and its uniformed extension. If the porter can be trusted, this group tries to energise people, certain people to achieve things for them. They seemed to want a sustainable society. That is the number one priority for them, to improve things. Unfortunately it seems they are only concerned about their own families or special people.
I walked away from my ordeal with the porter convinced he was not a generic person telling a tale.
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jun 13, 2018 14:06:15 GMT
I think if all we are doing is looking to have hunches of secret societies' existences' confirmed, music videos aren't a bad way to go. People who make these videos are often like, "dance magick dance" and all...
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Post by wulfklevrn on Jun 13, 2018 14:29:20 GMT
Do you want to see an old man gangbang as part of a freemasonic ritual late at night in an effort to bring about a blessing for the new season? If so, follow me.
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jun 13, 2018 14:51:46 GMT
But then again you could go to this site english.grimoar.cz/?Loc=key&Lng=2And ask those authors whether they think secret societies are real. Being as the best source of a spell is the mouth of whatever horse you rode in on. |
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Post by sun on Jun 13, 2018 15:47:06 GMT
What gives you the idea there is no evidence that secret societies exist? The fact of secret societies is completely historical. The Illuminati is accepted among mainstream academia as a society spearheaded by this guy Adam Weishaupt who had this plan for a better world. Yes, in terms of history it's also accepted his society was disbanded, but there is no contest within the community that it ever existed, only how long it existed for and the extent of its machinations. So, while you can say there is no evidence that any current illuminati exists, you can't say that secret societies do not exist and never have. The Freemasons are a current historical secret society, and while you may say that they have no influence over major events and do not constitute a legitimate conspiracy, you can't say that they aren't real or that they don't selectively curate their membership and that they don't consider themselves secretive in spite of the fact that they have secrets known to members that are unknown to non-members. Secret societies, by this fashion, are real. It is not out of the norm of humanity to have secret groups with secret rituals, and there is no question as to whether humanity has or has not had these groups, as they have been historically declassified. Now, how much you believe this stuff matters, is where the question becomes open for debate. My personal stance is that it doesn't matter what somebody is hiding as long as the truth gets revealed. So what becomes important by my measure is that if something is a secret, it is possible for that secret to be exposed, and if it is, the source of the secret doesn't matter anymore. What matters is the content of what you intend to communicate. If you have information that can change the world...the bang is in the bringing, not the tease. Either you can deliver...or you can't. 
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Post by feltzens on Jun 15, 2018 1:59:24 GMT
Let's say for the sake of argument there indeed are lots of different secret societies. there's a great deal of historical evidence to suggest that when people have power or they have secrets, they tend to act in their own interests and concentrate power among existing channels. I don't know where your confidence comes from that any secret society has the best interests of the general population at heart. I think by nature most organizations like this tend to think they are above the general public. Personally, I don't believe the ego needs a healthy boost. The ego is designed to flex itself without any help... Spiritual natures don't tend to develop on their own though. It's more of an applied...a discipline. That is why as you mentioned there are a lot of traditions that deemphasize the psychic powers as such because they are not supposed to be the ends. The end is suppose to be the discipline. The truth is out there for those intent on finding it. We live in a revolutionary era of mankind. We have the most extensive education in the history of our species available at any instant at any time through the medium of the internet. Of course this just means the really good stuff is hidden under the endless distractions of multimedia and the impulse machine as you phrase it. But still, for those who are worthy...bringing it back round to your initial comment. Perhaps being able to uncover the information is proof in itself that you are worthy of knowing it. Care to indulge us on said truth? Not trying to be coy, i am interested in what you perceive this truth to be and above all how knowledge of said truth impacts the decisions you make in daily life. I understand the truth to be relative all the way up, all the way down.. and if there is an absolute truth it most certainly lies beyond the capacity of the human organism to apprehend. The latest 'truth update' that feels genuine came via a talk this fellow was giving somewhere in silicon valley. It was on ascension, and 6th dimensional beings aka angels, and the opposing forces who have been running the show for a long time here on our prison planet. I remember running into ideas like these in the past but my ability to apprehend these truths was limited. Sure, i could entertain the notions, but like most people running around now (i assume), i viewed them as creative flights of fancy, as narratives people come up with when they've got time to kill. Anyway, this time around.. the message made a lot of sense. I could intuit that indeed not only is the scenario possible, it is the most likely given our multi-dimensional reality. Sure, i'm still keeping the door open to the possibility that this new perspective isn't entirely accurate as was presented, but it has had a sufficient enough impact to consider how i choose to spend my time and whether i'm doing enough to try and participate in the development of these changes in alignment with my values. The thing is.. even with the truth (or an ever greater degree of it..) out there for all to know and experience, the issue of most relevance is always what the individual chooses to do. I often hear that our degree of choice-making is in relationship to what we know. There are degrees and different types of knowing however and this is something i feel isn't discussed enough. I'll give a personal example of what i mean.. a few years ago, after some consciousness related experiences, i decided to take up qigong. I read a bunch about it, google was my friend in this. Agreed: we live in an incredible age in terms of access to knowledge. But then came the doing part.. that was much, much harder. Initially i literally forced myself to practice the postures and movements but then after a period of a few months the benefits became tangible. I began to feel comfortable in my own skin, something i had honestly never experienced in my life. I began to experience the intelligence of my body, how the instinctual apparatus works, and also to experience the critical role it plays in manifesting/processing emotional states. This has changed my life drastically for the better. So what motivated me to pursue and apply as best i could this knowledge? it was fear. i had no conscious frame of reference for the experiences i had and since i also did not have a conscious recollection to agreeing it was a good idea to have them happen to me in the first place, it was not outlandish to think it could happen again any moment. I knew based on reading knowledge that practicing qigong would help me regain my strength. through consistent practice i eventually discovered that my body has it's own mechanisms for gathering information from the environment in ways i was utterly oblivious to before.. but now i can rely on this knowing to better inform my being in the world. My point in relating this is that it isn't enough to gain an understanding of or having access to more of the truth.. Indeed we are lucky to have the knowledge at our fingertips, indeed there are likely tons of secret groups plus tons of non-secret groups and many of these are running the social show and don't have the best interest of the general population at heart. But what is there to do? Is it really our place to do anything beyond applying what we know in a way that delivers a bit on the promise of our human experience? Do we truly have control over anything beyond our own selves? Could it be our current dystopian environment is in some way more conducive to the growth of consciousness (arising from a sense of urgency,for those who choose it) than an Utopian society where everyone's needs are easily met? Are these questions infuriatingly naive from the perspective of a truly awakened awareness? I'm open to that possibility.. but i have to trust my own experience of being above all and this informs me that our existence is an opportunity for expression, in whatever form that might take. I may not agree with evil and agendas of control but i understand they serve a purpose in creating an environment where we can be challenged and work to discover aspects of our being that keep the experience of existing fresh and enticing. cheers! |
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jun 15, 2018 11:41:19 GMT
Care to indulge us on said truth? Not trying to be coy, i am interested in what you perceive this truth to be and above all how knowledge of said truth impacts the decisions you make in daily life. I understand the truth to be relative all the way up, all the way down.. and if there is an absolute truth it most certainly lies beyond the capacity of the human organism to apprehend. The latest 'truth update' that feels genuine came via a talk this fellow was giving somewhere in silicon valley. It was on ascension, and 6th dimensional beings aka angels, and the opposing forces who have been running the show for a long time here on our prison planet. I remember running into ideas like these in the past but my ability to apprehend these truths was limited. Sure, i could entertain the notions, but like most people running around now (i assume), i viewed them as creative flights of fancy, as narratives people come up with when they've got time to kill. Anyway, this time around.. the message made a lot of sense. I could intuit that indeed not only is the scenario possible, it is the most likely given our multi-dimensional reality. Sure, i'm still keeping the door open to the possibility that this new perspective isn't entirely accurate as was presented, but it has had a sufficient enough impact to consider how i choose to spend my time and whether i'm doing enough to try and participate in the development of these changes in alignment with my values. The thing is.. even with the truth (or an ever greater degree of it..) out there for all to know and experience, the issue of most relevance is always what the individual chooses to do. I often hear that our degree of choice-making is in relationship to what we know. There are degrees and different types of knowing however and this is something i feel isn't discussed enough. I'll give a personal example of what i mean.. a few years ago, after some consciousness related experiences, i decided to take up qigong. I read a bunch about it, google was my friend in this. Agreed: we live in an incredible age in terms of access to knowledge. But then came the doing part.. that was much, much harder. Initially i literally forced myself to practice the postures and movements but then after a period of a few months the benefits became tangible. I began to feel comfortable in my own skin, something i had honestly never experienced in my life. I began to experience the intelligence of my body, how the instinctual apparatus works, and also to experience the critical role it plays in manifesting/processing emotional states. This has changed my life drastically for the better. So what motivated me to pursue and apply as best i could this knowledge? it was fear. i had no conscious frame of reference for the experiences i had and since i also did not have a conscious recollection to agreeing it was a good idea to have them happen to me in the first place, it was not outlandish to think it could happen again any moment. I knew based on reading knowledge that practicing qigong would help me regain my strength. through consistent practice i eventually discovered that my body has it's own mechanisms for gathering information from the environment in ways i was utterly oblivious to before.. but now i can rely on this knowing to better inform my being in the world. My point in relating this is that it isn't enough to gain an understanding of or having access to more of the truth.. Indeed we are lucky to have the knowledge at our fingertips, indeed there are likely tons of secret groups plus tons of non-secret groups and many of these are running the social show and don't have the best interest of the general population at heart. But what is there to do? Is it really our place to do anything beyond applying what we know in a way that delivers a bit on the promise of our human experience? Do we truly have control over anything beyond our own selves? Could it be our current dystopian environment is in some way more conducive to the growth of consciousness (arising from a sense of urgency,for those who choose it) than an Utopian society where everyone's needs are easily met? Are these questions infuriatingly naive from the perspective of a truly awakened awareness? I'm open to that possibility.. but i have to trust my own experience of being above all and this informs me that our existence is an opportunity for expression, in whatever form that might take. I may not agree with evil and agendas of control but i understand they serve a purpose in creating an environment where we can be challenged and work to discover aspects of our being that keep the experience of existing fresh and enticing. cheers! In the direct context of this thread the question was whether there is such a thing as secret societies in our world. the answer to that is yes. they exist. and they did. I wasn't trying to load a metaphysical gun with my philosophy when I said the truth is out there. I think your philosophy is interesting because it's very unique. It seems like you've put a lot of thought into it and it works for you. Really, I meet somebody who has an original and well-articulated philosophy like that very rarely. I suppose I understand truth as more than a socially communicable set of facts that we use to structure our lives. For me being born as a person who seeks the truth is also in seeking the experience of the truth. Sometimes that is revelatory truth which is necessarily personal and incommunicable. But it's also an experience of life like art and art like life, by which I mean sometimes for me seeking the truth is no different than seeking an authentic experience. Or hearing an authentic thought, even if I don't necessarily agree. I think I understand saying that you can only control yourself and that you can't wait for the rest of the world to be happy or you never will be, but I think having the capacity to think in terms bigger than ourselves as individual people is what gives us nobility. It's not your "duty" to try and make the world work, but it's your right to imagine what a better world might look like. We're not born into this planet with "our place" defined somewhere. I don't think utopia will every exist but should that stop people from making improvements on these structure systems with deep systemic problems? I don't think having an antagonist helps human consciousness grow. I think the corporations funding the political action committees that our funding my government suck. and I think that we spend so much money trying to trigger and discover buttons and levers in behavior that we are conditioning ourselves to not to conceive ourselves as more than that. Because how higher-order you want your awareness to be is really a personal thing. Some people are comfortable just turning into blackness and having that for the rest of forever. Likewise some people apparently want to be machines and they want to believe that their awareness of being a person is actually just a hallucination that your brain deluded you into having. Personally I can't see it as simple or sensible but it brings some people great relief and happiness to be a delusion of having an experience rather than an experience having itself. So truth is sensitive for some, and for others it's worthless if not up for question at any time. I have noticed some people have found ways to base the foundation of their lives in certain truths and in that sense, it's not always our place to enlighten each other. We tend to end up around people that in some way relate to who we are, whether as complements corollaries or even anathemas. Yes an enemy does allow for an experience of growth and evil does allow for all the more power in good. But does that mean people who hurt each other are somehow doing a good thing? In my eyes no. You don't have to give it excess energy by spending time hating it, but bad things happen that should never happen and that don't have to happen and sometimes it is worth people's time to think about that fact. I think when we begin getting existential sometimes there's this instinct to be like "nothing matters because it's all fake" or "my experience of being self-aware is thought to be a delusion by premier academic thinkers." A delusion usually implies a belief that is not shared by every single other human alive. If your consciousness was a delusion than I'm not sure I trust you anymore because you told me your measurement tool is not real but somehow your measurement is is still valid... Some people just really care deeply about some things for reasons that are hard to pin down. |
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Post by feltzens on Jun 16, 2018 21:30:43 GMT
not relevant to thread
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Post by feltzens on Jun 17, 2018 18:46:49 GMT
Thank you for your kind take on my philosophy, in essence i have found that what works best for me is what you describe.. That truth is rooted in personal experience, along with the understanding that it is something that cannot possibly remain static but should remain always open to be modified/integrated through experience. In this sense i am wary of any isms or philosophical systems and their tendency to ossify, though my experience has been that many are useful frames of reference for interpreting my own.
As for revelatory truth having the quality of being incommunicable, i agree although this certainly hasn’t stopped humanity from trying as the history of religion will attest to. This suggest to me that we are essentially wired with the capacity to experience these types of experience and i am curious about the precise mechanisms that factor in their manifestation.. In particular, the role that meaning and general pattern making play. In my experience it has been precisely a pursuit of meaning which has primed me for experiences of the spiritual or transcendent.
I truly appreciate and benefit from your generosity in sharing your understanding and wisdom, and so would it be possible for you to share some of your thoughts on meaning? Doesn’t have to be in this particular context, could be in general.
Yes, i do very much believe we are only in control of our own selves but i do acknowledge i’m not yet sufficiently knowledgeable on the possibility that our collective interconnectivity/subconscious allows for groups or individuals if not to exert control, then certainly have an impact/influence on the collective. My intuition tells me (though not yet personal experience) this is a large part of what goes on with secret societies, a sort of behind-the-scenes tug of war in the invisible worlds and the ensuing effect on our physical reality.
I remember reading one of your nobody articles (i’m assuming it’s nobody related) where you were describing something like this.. An instance of an individual gaining sufficient gravity or higher-ordered awareness to start having that sort of an impact on our reality, a fascinating idea to say the least.
I appreciate the questions you raise around the state of the world and whether we are justified in letting things simply be while so much shit that happens that doesn’t have to. I am guilty of falling to this existential funk.. Not in the form of “nothing matters because it’s fake” necessarily, but definitely getting carried away by a sort of hyper-individualism compounded by a sort of self-imposed isolation. Personally, there’s a rising eagerness to move beyond that and this is where the attraction to ‘western’ vs ‘eastern’ esoteric philosophy arises from me.. In gross and simplistic terms, much of the western stuff has a ‘this world is an opportunity we can work with’ vs the eastern (vedic/buddhist) passivity and an emphasis on the illusory or cyclic nature of reality.. Notions that may be helpful guideposts for understanding but not something my deepest sense of being/yearning/willing is interested in as some sort of foundation or justification for not engaging with the world.
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cheers!
