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Post by Caylus Ark on Jul 30, 2016 2:23:05 GMT
Whew - sorry I have been gone so long also. I was on vacation on a boat with a couple of great friends and didn't have very good internet access. (I know - poor me :-P) I was able to read posts but could not respond well. At any rate, yes, I did a happy dance, Sir Jos. Whether or not you believe in the Woo is truly none of my business though, no matter how much I might try to persuade you lol. I do find your posts helpful, however. I've been trying to figure out why that is the case. I think it may be simply because you make the unknowable knowable - in your area of expertise at least. And that brings comfort. What is it but the unknown of which we are most afraid? Death? Not really - it is not knowing what happens when we die that makes us afraid. Also your keen logic is grounding. I tend to get lost in the aether sometimes and reading your words helps me to even out I think. It's too bad you are in such a clandestine field for you would make a wonderful writer. I guess you do make your impact on the world behind the scenes though through your clients. And you do it here by sharing with us. Maybe doing both things brings some level of balance. It occurs to me that you are almost like a White Hat. haha (almost lol) Out of curiosity, did you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement before you began work with your celebrities? Does posting here violate that agreement or are you dancing on the line? Andrea, if 'they' thought I needed an NDA, I wouldn't be what I am. I am most certainly dancing a line that I have likely crossed a few times. Does it worry you, to have crossed it? Or do you think it's one of those things that - in an obscure enough format, probably won't raise too many eyebrows?
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Post by josv2 on Jul 30, 2016 2:24:24 GMT
Kayli, thank you for the opportunity to edit posts. As you know, I am very obsessive/compulsive. The ability to correct my mis-strokes is therapeutic.
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Post by josv2 on Jul 30, 2016 2:25:49 GMT
Andrea, if 'they' thought I needed an NDA, I wouldn't be what I am. I am most certainly dancing a line that I have likely crossed a few times. Does it worry you, to have crossed it? Or do you think it's one of those things that - in an obscure enough format, probably won't raise too many eyebrows? Occasionally I allow myself to be concerned about it. For the most part, I feel that we haven't crossed the line that often if at all. After all, how much 'tattling' can a hired hand do?
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jul 30, 2016 2:25:53 GMT
Heh, I totally understand. Post editing is something I do rather often myself, I think if I wasn't able to go back and edit my posts my forum would start to frustrate me very fast.
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jul 30, 2016 2:26:50 GMT
Does it worry you, to have crossed it? Or do you think it's one of those things that - in an obscure enough format, probably won't raise too many eyebrows? Occasionally I allow myself to be concerned about it. For the most part, I feel that we haven't crossed the line that often if at all. After all, how much 'tattling' can a hired hand do? You're technically an 'independent contractor' right? I mean it's not like you work for the government directly - or do you? I'm not certain how your profession handles those technicalities.
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Post by josv2 on Jul 30, 2016 2:28:44 GMT
Occasionally I allow myself to be concerned about it. For the most part, I feel that we haven't crossed the line that often if at all. After all, how much 'tattling' can a hired hand do? You're technically an 'independent contractor' right? I mean it's not like you work for the government directly - or do you? I'm not certain how your profession handles those technicalities. I am an independent contractor in reality. Officially, I've been assigned various credentials.
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jul 30, 2016 2:31:00 GMT
Ben posted this when we were talking on another thread: What I never understood is this, why have the mental meltdowns in public, sure you can't control them if they come, but you should seek help in friends or family or a psychiatrist for that matter days or even weeks before this happens. Celebs know their limits before breaking, everyone gets a feel of this if they ever stood on a podium. Public pressure has many forms, but ahhh im blabbering. What do you think about that? I was talking to my mom about Britney's breakdown, when she was doing really weird stuff like painting her face with clown makeup and holding a fake babydoll and stuff. It seemed like when she broke down it was really, really bad. What do you think makes some celebs break down so much worse than others?
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Post by josv2 on Jul 30, 2016 2:58:03 GMT
Ben posted this when we were talking on another thread: What I never understood is this, why have the mental meltdowns in public, sure you can't control them if they come, but you should seek help in friends or family or a psychiatrist for that matter days or even weeks before this happens. Celebs know their limits before breaking, everyone gets a feel of this if they ever stood on a podium. Public pressure has many forms, but ahhh im blabbering. What do you think about that? I was talking to my mom about Britney's breakdown, when she was doing really weird stuff like painting her face with clown makeup and holding a fake babydoll and stuff. It seemed like when she broke down it was really, really bad. What do you think makes some celebs break down so much worse than others? Breaks happen in public for many reasons:
1) Celebs have a different experience than "John Public" when they go out. They have paparazzi, and fans 'stalking' their every move. Often breaks are triggered by these people. There are websites devoted solely to tracking celebrity whereabouts. Imagine that pressure.
2) They are conditioned to believe that the only person they can really 'trust' is the programmer. If they have poorly developed that side of the asset/programmer relationship, they'll never receive a report of such.
3) You can't always just put a celeb 'on the shelf' if something is outside acceptable parameters. Careers have demands.
4) A 'break' is spontaneous sometimes and can have absolutely no warning.
As for the severity of breakdown, there's a lot of potential answers. Let's say for example that some facet of the celeb's programming involved someone saying their name many times in succession. Terrible modality because that's going to happen on the street. Get someone with the 'right voice', excited to see a celebrity and suddenly you've triggered a memory of trauma. I'm not saying that's what happened to Britney, but I'm also not, not saying it.
If we're talking about potential though: everyone has the same potential for similar levels of severity.
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jul 30, 2016 3:02:19 GMT
Ben posted this when we were talking on another thread: What do you think about that? I was talking to my mom about Britney's breakdown, when she was doing really weird stuff like painting her face with clown makeup and holding a fake babydoll and stuff. It seemed like when she broke down it was really, really bad. What do you think makes some celebs break down so much worse than others? Breaks happen in public for many reasons:
1) Celebs have a different experience that "John Public" when they go out. They have paparazzi, and fans 'stalking' their every move. Often breaks are triggered by these people. There are websites devoted solely to tracking celebrity whereabouts. Imagine that pressure.
2) They are conditioned to believe that the only person they can really 'trust' is the programmer. If they have poorly developed that side of the asset/programmer relationship, they'll never receive a report of such.
3) You can't always just put a celeb 'on the shelf' if something is outside acceptable parameters. Careers have demands.
4) A 'break' is spontaneous sometimes and can have absolutely no warning.
How do you guys 'clean up' a celebrities reputation, or explain their meltdowns to the public, or make it seem like a nonissue? Are there any go-to techniques - I know "drug abuse" is one of them. You know - the whole thing with Michael Jackson, and his supposed fondness for little children - I have come to believe over the years it was something that had to do with his own screwed up childhood and all of the abuses that fame had engendered after all of those years. Do you think, that the people working with him, simply did not care about the way he would unravel down the line? I feel sad for him often, especially in light of some his lyrics.
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Post by josv2 on Jul 30, 2016 3:09:20 GMT
Breaks happen in public for many reasons:
1) Celebs have a different experience that "John Public" when they go out. They have paparazzi, and fans 'stalking' their every move. Often breaks are triggered by these people. There are websites devoted solely to tracking celebrity whereabouts. Imagine that pressure.
2) They are conditioned to believe that the only person they can really 'trust' is the programmer. If they have poorly developed that side of the asset/programmer relationship, they'll never receive a report of such.
3) You can't always just put a celeb 'on the shelf' if something is outside acceptable parameters. Careers have demands.
4) A 'break' is spontaneous sometimes and can have absolutely no warning.
How do you guys 'clean up' a celebrities reputation, or explain their meltdowns to the public, or make it seem like a nonissue? Are there any go-to techniques - I know "drug abuse" is one of them. You know - the whole thing with Michael Jackson, and his supposed fondness for little children - I have come to believe over the years it was something that had to do with his own screwed up childhood and all of the abuses that fame had engendered after all of those years. Do you think, that the people working with him, simply did not care about the way he would unravel down the line? I feel sad for him often, especially in light of some his lyrics. Sometimes it's irreparable. Look at Britney's career post breakdown. While there was a fair amount of successful damage control, she's still nowhere near where she used to be. That's because she never recovered. She's good for small venue work and that's pretty much it.
Let's say though, that her mind had come back from the break - the career could be resurrected in a handful of important appearances. For example: The New Ghostbusters. Neither a good nor bad film. It was going to be doomed as you probably know, until it got the blockbuster pre-treatment. To resurrect a career you have but to put that client alongside the high-risers of the industry. They are the modern pantheon and so when one falls from grace, have her do a duet with Zeus.
Drugs is the answer to any celeb breakdown question usually. Not drug abuse, the drugs used and administered throughout the career. But his degradation had become so severe that his 'legacy' became more valuable to tptb than continuation of his career. Nobody wants for a cash cow to degrade but such is the imperfect science of mind control.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 3:11:54 GMT
Ben posted this when we were talking on another thread: What do you think about that? I was talking to my mom about Britney's breakdown, when she was doing really weird stuff like painting her face with clown makeup and holding a fake babydoll and stuff. It seemed like when she broke down it was really, really bad. What do you think makes some celebs break down so much worse than others? Breaks happen in public for many reasons:
1) Celebs have a different experience that "John Public" when they go out. They have paparazzi, and fans 'stalking' their every move. Often breaks are triggered by these people. There are websites devoted solely to tracking celebrity whereabouts. Imagine that pressure.
2) They are conditioned to believe that the only person they can really 'trust' is the programmer. If they have poorly developed that side of the asset/programmer relationship, they'll never receive a report of such.
3) You can't always just put a celeb 'on the shelf' if something is outside acceptable parameters. Careers have demands.
4) A 'break' is spontaneous sometimes and can have absolutely no warning.
As for the severity of breakdown, there's a lot of potential answers. Let's say for example that some facet of the celeb's programming involved someone saying their name many times in succession. Terrible modality because that's going to happen on the street. Get someone with the 'right voice', excited to see a celebrity and suddenly you've triggered a memory of trauma. I'm not saying that's what happened to Britne,y but I'm also not, not saying it.
If we're talking about potential though: everyone has the same potential for similar levels of severity.
Welcome back Jos v2! Bigger, stronger, faster! hehe Aaanyway, I was wondering if you have ever heard of a celebrity who has successfully resisted shattering, and if so, what became of him/her?
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Post by josv2 on Jul 30, 2016 3:17:25 GMT
Breaks happen in public for many reasons:
1) Celebs have a different experience that "John Public" when they go out. They have paparazzi, and fans 'stalking' their every move. Often breaks are triggered by these people. There are websites devoted solely to tracking celebrity whereabouts. Imagine that pressure.
2) They are conditioned to believe that the only person they can really 'trust' is the programmer. If they have poorly developed that side of the asset/programmer relationship, they'll never receive a report of such.
3) You can't always just put a celeb 'on the shelf' if something is outside acceptable parameters. Careers have demands.
4) A 'break' is spontaneous sometimes and can have absolutely no warning.
As for the severity of breakdown, there's a lot of potential answers. Let's say for example that some facet of the celeb's programming involved someone saying their name many times in succession. Terrible modality because that's going to happen on the street. Get someone with the 'right voice', excited to see a celebrity and suddenly you've triggered a memory of trauma. I'm not saying that's what happened to Britne,y but I'm also not, not saying it.
If we're talking about potential though: everyone has the same potential for similar levels of severity.
Welcome back Jos v2! Bigger, stronger, faster! hehe Aaanyway, I was wondering if you have ever heard of a celebrity who has successfully resisted shattering, and if so, what became of him/her? Resisted? Jim Carrey and Will Ferrell. They collectively changed programmers 3-times. usually though it's more about not surviving it (literally or intellectually). Much of the porn industry is filled with would-be a-listers.
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jul 30, 2016 3:23:41 GMT
How do you guys 'clean up' a celebrities reputation, or explain their meltdowns to the public, or make it seem like a nonissue? Are there any go-to techniques - I know "drug abuse" is one of them. You know - the whole thing with Michael Jackson, and his supposed fondness for little children - I have come to believe over the years it was something that had to do with his own screwed up childhood and all of the abuses that fame had engendered after all of those years. Do you think, that the people working with him, simply did not care about the way he would unravel down the line? I feel sad for him often, especially in light of some his lyrics. Sometimes it's irreparable. Look at Britney's career post breakdown. While there was a fair amount of successful damage control, she's still nowhere near where she used to be. That's because she never recovered. She's good for small venue work and that's pretty much it.
Let's say though, that her mind had come back from the break - the career could be resurrected in a handful of important appearances. For example: The New Ghostbusters. Neither a good nor bad film. It was going to be doomed as you probably know, until it got the blockbuster pre-treatment. To resurrect a career you have but to put that client alongside the high-risers of the industry. They are the modern pantheon and so when one falls from grace, have her do a duet with Zeus.
Drugs is the answer to any celeb breakdown question usually. Not drug abuse, the drugs used and administered throughout the career. But his degradation had become so severe that his 'legacy' became more valuable to tptb than continuation of his career. Nobody wants for a cash cow to degrade but such is the imperfect science of mind control.
You compare somebody like Britney to - say - a Madonna. In terms of methodology, what went wrong in the former case? Or right in the latter case? As you say, it's an imperfect science and - I'd imagine everybody reacts differently. So it may not always be a reflection on the competency of the team?
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jul 30, 2016 3:25:20 GMT
Welcome back Jos v2! Bigger, stronger, faster! hehe Aaanyway, I was wondering if you have ever heard of a celebrity who has successfully resisted shattering, and if so, what became of him/her? Resisted? Jim Carrey and Will Ferrell. They collectively changed programmers 3-times. usually though it's more about not surviving it (literally or intellectually). Much of the porn industry is filled with would-be a-listers. What is handling like in the porn industry? What are the differences in technique?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 3:27:22 GMT
Welcome back Jos v2! Bigger, stronger, faster! hehe Aaanyway, I was wondering if you have ever heard of a celebrity who has successfully resisted shattering, and if so, what became of him/her? Resisted? Jim Carrey and Will Ferrell. They collectively changed programmers 3-times. usually though it's more about not surviving it (literally or intellectually). Much of the porn industry is filled with would-be a-listers. Thank you. I knew I liked those two. And gosh - that's interesting about the porn industry. Very sad also. Yet I'm sure one must be tough to withstand the rigors of super stardom without the shattering. Withstanding the shattering and continuing to perform at such a high level seems nearly super human. Perhaps you can say you are creating entertainment "super soldiers." So regarding Jim Carrey and Will Ferrell, why have they not been removed from the spotlight if the shattering has been unsuccessful? Are they deemed to be more valuable in the spotlight? Jim Carrey seems to do a bit of spiritual teaching and speaking. Is he not deemed a threat? Do his handlers not care as long as he keeps the message he sends to the love and light end of the spectrum?
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Post by josv2 on Jul 30, 2016 3:31:37 GMT
Sometimes it's irreparable. Look at Britney's career post breakdown. While there was a fair amount of successful damage control, she's still nowhere near where she used to be. That's because she never recovered. She's good for small venue work and that's pretty much it.
Let's say though, that her mind had come back from the break - the career could be resurrected in a handful of important appearances. For example: The New Ghostbusters. Neither a good nor bad film. It was going to be doomed as you probably know, until it got the blockbuster pre-treatment. To resurrect a career you have but to put that client alongside the high-risers of the industry. They are the modern pantheon and so when one falls from grace, have her do a duet with Zeus.
Drugs is the answer to any celeb breakdown question usually. Not drug abuse, the drugs used and administered throughout the career. But his degradation had become so severe that his 'legacy' became more valuable to tptb than continuation of his career. Nobody wants for a cash cow to degrade but such is the imperfect science of mind control.
You compare somebody like Britney to - say - a Madonna. In terms of methodology, what went wrong in the former case? Or right in the latter case? As you say, it's an imperfect science and - I'd imagine everybody reacts differently. So it may not always be a reflection on the competency of the team? Therein lies the mystery. Who's to say? Mind Control isn't exact because it isn't practiced on clones. Is it the methodology, proficiency of the team, luck, and/or subject that leads to success? Is it a particularly good relationship with the garbage man or a chance meeting that makes everything click? Impossible to truly know. Anticipated outcomes are just that: anticipated.
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Post by josv2 on Jul 30, 2016 3:34:13 GMT
Resisted? Jim Carrey and Will Ferrell. They collectively changed programmers 3-times. usually though it's more about not surviving it (literally or intellectually). Much of the porn industry is filled with would-be a-listers. What is handling like in the porn industry? What are the differences in technique? There's no 'handling' really. Assets are monitored similarly to how sleepers might be but not for potential 'breaks'. They're already broken. Mostly they're watched to see if they're going to overcome the meltdown and perhaps have some greater value.
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Post by josv2 on Jul 30, 2016 3:38:04 GMT
Resisted? Jim Carrey and Will Ferrell. They collectively changed programmers 3-times. usually though it's more about not surviving it (literally or intellectually). Much of the porn industry is filled with would-be a-listers. Thank you. I knew I liked those two. And gosh - that's interesting about the porn industry. Very sad also. Yet I'm sure one must be tough to withstand the rigors of super stardom without the shattering. Withstanding the shattering and continuing to perform at such a high level seems nearly super human. Perhaps you can say you are creating entertainment "super soldiers." So regarding Jim Carrey and Will Ferrell, why have they not been removed from the spotlight if the shattering has been unsuccessful? Are they deemed to be more valuable in the spotlight? Jim Carrey seems to do a bit of spiritual teaching and speaking. Is he not deemed a threat? Do his handlers not care as long as he keeps the message he sends to the love and light end of the spectrum? I'm sorry Andrea, I should have finished the first sentence. 'Resisted until they couldn't', would have been less confusing. No good can come from facing the trauma-based modalities of several programmers and an un-shattered celebrity would never be allowed to have as much spotlight as these two.
Unlike many celebs who get to utilize their 'core persona' in non-vital exchanges (with fans for example), these fellows are usually triggered to an alter. No one gets to see the 'real them' except on rare, private occasions.
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Post by Caylus Ark on Jul 30, 2016 3:43:12 GMT
What is handling like in the porn industry? What are the differences in technique? There's no 'handling' really. Assets are monitored similarly to how sleepers might be but not for potential 'breaks'. They're already broken. Mostly they're watched to see if they're going to overcome the meltdown and perhaps have some greater value. Ah... I see what you were getting at before - failed A-listers becoming porn-stars. So, it is possible to go from being a porn star to being an A-lister? Is porn-star, the result of a failed shattering? I think you already confirmed this, but I'm trying to see if I have that right. What role does sex tend to play in shattering, if any? I think we talked about this on your original GLP thread - that it's not necessary. But I don't precisely recall.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 3:43:40 GMT
Thank you. I knew I liked those two. And gosh - that's interesting about the porn industry. Very sad also. Yet I'm sure one must be tough to withstand the rigors of super stardom without the shattering. Withstanding the shattering and continuing to perform at such a high level seems nearly super human. Perhaps you can say you are creating entertainment "super soldiers." So regarding Jim Carrey and Will Ferrell, why have they not been removed from the spotlight if the shattering has been unsuccessful? Are they deemed to be more valuable in the spotlight? Jim Carrey seems to do a bit of spiritual teaching and speaking. Is he not deemed a threat? Do his handlers not care as long as he keeps the message he sends to the love and light end of the spectrum? I'm sorry Andrea, I should have finished the first sentence. 'Resisted until they couldn't', would have been less confusing. No good can come from facing the trauma-based modalities of several programmers and an un-shattered celebrity would never be allowed to have as much spotlight as these two.
Unlike many celebs who get to utilize their 'core persona' in non-vital exchanges (with fans for example), these fellows are usually triggered to an alter. No one gets to see the 'real them' except on rare, private occasions.
Oh, bummer. I guess one can only resist so much. But it does make sense now. I guess they could not be trusted at all so were almost over programmed? Wowser. Well, I am going to retire for the night. I hope you both have a peaceful sleep - goodnight Sir Jos and M'lady Kayli <3
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